|
Post by Miss Lacy on Jul 19, 2016 22:12:03 GMT -5
While living in Jamaica I came to appreciate the religious beliefs of Rastafarianism. link You know-- Bob Marley's whole "One Love" stuff-- living a peaceful, humble, and helpful life. Although I was never able to wrap my head around the fact that Rastas also believe that the Ethiopian King Haile Selassie was the second coming of Jesus, I never felt the need to argue against their belief. You spiritual beliefs (whether religious, non-religious, or somewhere inbetween) are your own--- who am I to say they are false? One Love.
|
|
|
Post by packdog on Jul 19, 2016 22:42:12 GMT -5
I can't find where you said it, but I read a post here before I joined of you stating that I was one of those athiests who refuses to accept the possibility of a god. Not sure what thread it was in, but you singled me out as such, and that's not true. I'm an agnostic athiest. Theist means belief in a god/deity. Atheist is lack of belief in a god/diety. Gnosticism is a claim of knowing, so: Gnostic means to claim to know. Agnostic means to not claim to know. Atheist and agnostic are two mutually exclusives things and a person can be both. You can be one of four things: Gnostic theist: believe in God(s) and claim to know that you're absolutely correct. Agnostic theist: believe in God(s) but don't claim to have absolute proof. Gnostic atheist: lack belief in any gods and claim to know that you're absolutely correct. Agnostic atheist: lack belief in any gods but don't claim to have absolute proof. In my opinion, Gnosticism is the biggest problem... That's what inspires fundamentalism on both sides of the aisle. If everyone just admitted that we don't know for sure, since it's a belief, not proven fact, then the crazies on each side might tone things down a bit (or a lot). i think you are a bit confused on what gnosticism is. it rose in the wake of Jesus and was the way in which some pagans viewed Him. it popped up all over the Roman Empire and many viewed Jesus as spiritual phantasm that connected man to a spiritual truth. it started as forms of many mystery school religions which were like little clubs that devoted to a particular deity. it could be Jesus or Isis or Apollo, etc.. Marcion, who very anti-semitic and heavily edited paul's letters, and valentinius were the biggest influences of Christ-based gnostocism though there were others. the NT was cannonized because of the problems gnostics posed to early Christianity and not because of Constantine at a council a couple centuries later ( i don't know if you think that but i mention it because many do after that novel Dan Brown wrote and modern gnostics repeat it all the time) the main aspect of gnosticism is viewing the created world, and hence the Creator, as evil (kinda like when atheists point to the OT). deities were looked to find the good within themselves from a spiritual force. very dualistic and in modern times a gnostic will often claim to find the spiritual divinity within. a very clear elevation of man as god. i can make the case Darwinism does the same. i can make that case with most any religion outside Christianity and Judaism (i view Jews as stubborn Christians). i am most certainly a Christian but in no way am i gnostic. that was the first corruption of Christianity and in today's world it will often be man that takes the spiritual liberation in his own hands. it often also happens to view the serpent as the means to this enlightenment and the bringer of the revelation (or light of knowledge) against the Creator. Satanists don't worship the devil. they worship themselves. it's more a philosophy then a religion. it's the very first lie but the most effective one. "ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil..." this lie can be found in all of history in the pharaohs of egypt, the roman emperors, tribal ancestor worship around the globe, atheism, gnosticism, buddism, toaism, ancestor worship in tribal groups around the globe, and most any other religion and philosophy. it's very flattering and i see why man runs with it all the time but there is a reason it is so prevalent in many different forms. i think that is the biggest problem the world has ever seen and will continue to be so. man is no god but we like to think we are.
|
|
|
Post by packdog on Jul 19, 2016 23:10:15 GMT -5
I just looked up agnostic atheist. And yes there is a definition. But to me it is a made up point of view that makes no sense. Atheist believe that God does not exist. Agnostics believe they do not know. How can you be both? But I guess things are different now. When I went to school we learned what both atheist and agnostic meant. But we also learned males were males and females were females. So ya I guess you can be both agnostic/atheist if that is the new math. I get it. I'm just an old white fart who needs to die. I'm being sarcastic at the end there ya know. you can be both and people always were. it has nothing to do with modern times. it's a philosophical approach. even the most ardent and informed atheists have to admit at some point there is things they do not know. i would guess an agnostic atheist will leave open the possibility of a creator but admit he/she doesn't know and hence won't believe in a particular entity in the absence of acceptable proof for them. a pure atheist will decline any notion of god and take a leap of faith that no such entity exists despite lingering unanswered questions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 0:21:39 GMT -5
I just looked up agnostic atheist. And yes there is a definition. But to me it is a made up point of view that makes no sense. Atheist believe that God does not exist. Agnostics believe they do not know. How can you be both? But I guess things are different now. When I went to school we learned what both atheist and agnostic meant. But we also learned males were males and females were females. So ya I guess you can be both agnostic/atheist if that is the new math. I get it. I'm just an old white fart who needs to die. I'm being sarcastic at the end there ya know. you can be both and people always were. it has nothing to do with modern times. it's a philosophical approach. even the most ardent and informed atheists have to admit at some point there is things they do not know. i would guess an agnostic atheist will leave open the possibility of a creator but admit he/she doesn't know and hence won't believe in a particular entity in the absence of acceptable proof for them. a pure atheist will decline any notion of god and take a leap of faith that no such entity exists despite lingering unanswered questions. I disagree. It does have to do with modern times. At least that's how I see it. I remember the fifty's, sixties, and such. There were no such Philosophical approach. You either believed. weren't sure, or did not believe. It was simple. Now we are blending simplicity.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 4:14:27 GMT -5
I can't find where you said it, but I read a post here before I joined of you stating that I was one of those athiests who refuses to accept the possibility of a god. Not sure what thread it was in, but you singled me out as such, and that's not true. I'm an agnostic athiest. Theist means belief in a god/deity. Atheist is lack of belief in a god/diety. Gnosticism is a claim of knowing, so: Gnostic means to claim to know. Agnostic means to not claim to know. Atheist and agnostic are two mutually exclusives things and a person can be both. You can be one of four things: Gnostic theist: believe in God(s) and claim to know that you're absolutely correct. Agnostic theist: believe in God(s) but don't claim to have absolute proof. Gnostic atheist: lack belief in any gods and claim to know that you're absolutely correct. Agnostic atheist: lack belief in any gods but don't claim to have absolute proof. In my opinion, Gnosticism is the biggest problem... That's what inspires fundamentalism on both sides of the aisle. If everyone just admitted that we don't know for sure, since it's a belief, not proven fact, then the crazies on each side might tone things down a bit (or a lot). i think you are a bit confused on what gnosticism is. it rose in the wake of Jesus and was the way in which some pagans viewed Him. it popped up all over the Roman Empire and many viewed Jesus as spiritual phantasm that connected man to a spiritual truth. it started as forms of many mystery school religions which were like little clubs that devoted to a particular deity. it could be Jesus or Isis or Apollo, etc.. Marcion, who very anti-semitic and heavily edited paul's letters, and valentinius were the biggest influences of Christ-based gnostocism though there were others. the NT was cannonized because of the problems gnostics posed to early Christianity and not because of Constantine at a council a couple centuries later ( i don't know if you think that but i mention it because many do after that novel Dan Brown wrote and modern gnostics repeat it all the time) the main aspect of gnosticism is viewing the created world, and hence the Creator, as evil (kinda like when atheists point to the OT). deities were looked to find the good within themselves from a spiritual force. very dualistic and in modern times a gnostic will often claim to find the spiritual divinity within. a very clear elevation of man as god. i can make the case Darwinism does the same. i can make that case with most any religion outside Christianity and Judaism (i view Jews as stubborn Christians). i am most certainly a Christian but in no way am i gnostic. that was the first corruption of Christianity and in today's world it will often be man that takes the spiritual liberation in his own hands. it often also happens to view the serpent as the means to this enlightenment and the bringer of the revelation (or light of knowledge) against the Creator. Satanists don't worship the devil. they worship themselves. it's more a philosophy then a religion. it's the very first lie but the most effective one. "ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil..." this lie can be found in all of history in the pharaohs of egypt, the roman emperors, tribal ancestor worship around the globe, atheism, gnosticism, buddism, toaism, ancestor worship in tribal groups around the globe, and most any other religion and philosophy. it's very flattering and i see why man runs with it all the time but there is a reason it is so prevalent in many different forms. i think that is the biggest problem the world has ever seen and will continue to be so. man is no god but we like to think we are. I do not believe I am confused on Gnosticism. I thought I broke down what I meant very clearly. However, I can see that me referring to Gnosticism individually gets confusing because there was the Gnostic group to which you refer. But I explained what I meant when I was talking about gnostic vs agnostic. I mean the claim to know vs admitting one does not know. When I said gnosticism was the problem, I was referring to people who claim absolute certainty in their beliefs. I'd be interested to hear how you believe that Darwinism elevates man as God, and also why Christianity and Judaism are basically the only religions that don't. I've read your post about how you've reached your current stage of spirituality and am interested to hear more from you. You said you went from being an atheist to a Christian, and I would love to hear more about what convinced you of Christianity. I'm not looking to be converted, but I like to think I am a scientific mind and as such, I'm open to evidence. I don't know the truth of our existence, only what the evidence points towards (which so far is evolution and the Big Bang, neither of which provide any denial to the possibility of a god... just certain gods). I'm currently convinced that the Christian God is not possible given the numerous contradictions of his nature, attributed to him by the people who created him. But my mind can be changed, though not easily, as many here already know.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 4:43:38 GMT -5
I just looked up agnostic atheist. And yes there is a definition. But to me it is a made up point of view that makes no sense. Atheist believe that God does not exist. Agnostics believe they do not know. How can you be both? But I guess things are different now. When I went to school we learned what both atheist and agnostic meant. But we also learned males were males and females were females. So ya I guess you can be both agnostic/atheist if that is the new math. I get it. I'm just an old white fart who needs to die. I'm being sarcastic at the end there ya know. It's good you are learning that words are more complex than what you learned in school 50 years ago. Some places still define atheism as the belief that God does not exist, but that only represents a portion of atheists. I thought I broke the meanings down very clearly between atheist and theist, and then between gnostic and agnostic. It's pretty simple really, if I ask you two questions. 1: Do you believe in god(s)? Yes = Theist, No = Atheist. 2: Are you certain that you are correct? Yes = Gnostic, No = Agnostic. The definition of atheist that you hold to is the definition of gnostic atheists. They claim there is no God. But atheism is more simplistic. Theism means the belief in god(s). The prefix "a" means lack of or without. Just like amoral means without morality, atheist means without a belief in god(s). People who simply do not believe in any religion are atheists because they are without belief, and they are agnostic because they don't claim to know any Truth. With the definition of male and female, it is also far more complex than just one or the other. Females have two X chromesomes (XX) and males have an X and Y (XY), but there are also people born with XXY, XYY, XXXY, etc (genetic mutations, which can lead to people having both genitalia and other differences). The he lesson from all of this: the world is more complex than what they taught in school 50 years ago. Just try to keep an open mind
|
|
|
Post by Doc on Jul 20, 2016 11:56:51 GMT -5
I just looked up agnostic atheist. And yes there is a definition. But to me it is a made up point of view that makes no sense. Atheist believe that God does not exist. Agnostics believe they do not know. How can you be both? But I guess things are different now. When I went to school we learned what both atheist and agnostic meant. But we also learned males were males and females were females. So ya I guess you can be both agnostic/atheist if that is the new math. I get it. I'm just an old white fart who needs to die. I'm being sarcastic at the end there ya know. With the definition of male and female, it is also far more complex than just one or the other. Females have two X chromesomes (XX) and males have an X and Y (XY), but there are also people born with XXY, XYY, XXXY, etc (genetic mutations, which can lead to people having both genitalia and other differences). Yes, but to have 56 gender options is out of freaking control, and just shows how twisted this country has become....IMHO "So, if you don't identify as male or female, then what? Well, Facebook offers 56 options. You can use up to 10 of them on your profile." link
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 12:30:51 GMT -5
With the definition of male and female, it is also far more complex than just one or the other. Females have two X chromesomes (XX) and males have an X and Y (XY), but there are also people born with XXY, XYY, XXXY, etc (genetic mutations, which can lead to people having both genitalia and other differences). Yes, but to have 56 gender options is out of freaking control, and just shows how twisted this country has become....IMHO "So, if you don't identify as male or female, then what? Well, Facebook offers 56 options. You can use up to 10 of them on your profile." linkIs that really the bar that shows how twisted the country has become; people having various ways to identify their genders based on different biological or chemical differences in their bodies and minds? You don't think there is a lot more crazy, twisted stuff going on. Why do other people care at all what some child or adult cares to identify as? It matters a lot to them and should not matter at all to you or anyone else.
The fact that there are people trying to pass laws to make life more difficult for people who identify as one of these various genders is far more disturbing to me. The nut jobs running around with all sorts of guns, thinking they are making America safer by doing so, is far more disturbing to me. Giving millions of dollars in tax breaks to a church group that wants to build a giant "replica" of make-believe ship (and then limit the hiring of staff to only Christians) is far more disturbing to me.
IMHO, the fact that people have the choice to select various types of genders on Facebook is a teardrop in the ocean of indicators that your country is twisted.
|
|
|
Post by Doc on Jul 20, 2016 12:40:19 GMT -5
No, that certainly is not the "bar" to show how twisted the country has become. Just another example on a long list of things, and sure, many of the other things are of much more importance. I just brought this one up in reference to your previous quote about gender.
|
|
|
Post by packdog on Jul 20, 2016 23:46:07 GMT -5
I do not believe I am confused on Gnosticism. I thought I broke down what I meant very clearly. However, I can see that me referring to Gnosticism individually gets confusing because there was the Gnostic group to which you refer. But I explained what I meant when I was talking about gnostic vs agnostic. I mean the claim to know vs admitting one does not know. When I said gnosticism was the problem, I was referring to people who claim absolute certainty in their beliefs. I'd be interested to hear how you believe that Darwinism elevates man as God, and also why Christianity and Judaism are basically the only religions that don't. I've read your post about how you've reached your current stage of spirituality and am interested to hear more from you. You said you went from being an atheist to a Christian, and I would love to hear more about what convinced you of Christianity. I'm not looking to be converted, but I like to think I am a scientific mind and as such, I'm open to evidence. I don't know the truth of our existence, only what the evidence points towards (which so far is evolution and the Big Bang, neither of which provide any denial to the possibility of a god... just certain gods). I'm currently convinced that the Christian God is not possible given the numerous contradictions of his nature, attributed to him by the people who created him. But my mind can be changed, though not easily, as many here already know. oops. i think i was just itching to spit something. my bad. i clearly ignored Occam. i see your point clearly now and i would love to go into further detail on the topics you entered. gimme a bit of time though as i just had surgery today and am quite sore and medicated. prolly wouldn't feel good to get the books. i hope your scientific mind is beyond the high school text book definition, tv, and even a beginner college class for examples of evolution. it would be a good base but i can help. unfortunately a lot of my evolution texts are back in florida but maybe i can bring some back when i visit in early august if we keep this up. can be civil and just argue points from a scientific and historical perspective. i ain't looking to convert instantly by being pushy. maybe i can plant a seed with reasoning but if not a good debate is fun to me. prolly will start a new thread though. feels more like dionysus territory in this one and i hijacked it
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 3:56:17 GMT -5
I do not believe I am confused on Gnosticism. I thought I broke down what I meant very clearly. However, I can see that me referring to Gnosticism individually gets confusing because there was the Gnostic group to which you refer. But I explained what I meant when I was talking about gnostic vs agnostic. I mean the claim to know vs admitting one does not know. When I said gnosticism was the problem, I was referring to people who claim absolute certainty in their beliefs. I'd be interested to hear how you believe that Darwinism elevates man as God, and also why Christianity and Judaism are basically the only religions that don't. I've read your post about how you've reached your current stage of spirituality and am interested to hear more from you. You said you went from being an atheist to a Christian, and I would love to hear more about what convinced you of Christianity. I'm not looking to be converted, but I like to think I am a scientific mind and as such, I'm open to evidence. I don't know the truth of our existence, only what the evidence points towards (which so far is evolution and the Big Bang, neither of which provide any denial to the possibility of a god... just certain gods). I'm currently convinced that the Christian God is not possible given the numerous contradictions of his nature, attributed to him by the people who created him. But my mind can be changed, though not easily, as many here already know. oops. i think i was just itching to spit something. my bad. i clearly ignored Occam. i see your point clearly now and i would love to go into further detail on the topics you entered. gimme a bit of time though as i just had surgery today and am quite sore and medicated. prolly wouldn't feel good to get the books. i hope your scientific mind is beyond the high school text book definition, tv, and even a beginner college class for examples of evolution. it would be a good base but i can help. unfortunately a lot of my evolution texts are back in florida but maybe i can bring some back when i visit in early august if we keep this up. can be civil and just argue points from a scientific and historical perspective. i ain't looking to convert instantly by being pushy. maybe i can plant a seed with reasoning but if not a good debate is fun to me. prolly will start a new thread though. feels more like dionysus territory in this one and i hijacked it Sounds good to me. Hope all goes well with your recovery.
|
|
|
Post by Doc on Aug 19, 2016 10:59:01 GMT -5
Don't think it was actually Albert Einstein that said this. Nevertheless, it is a beautiful statement.
"Evil does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light."
|
|
|
Post by nateball on Sept 5, 2016 23:39:16 GMT -5
most people don't know this but in ancient times people often drank wine predominantly because the sources of water could be quite deadly In some third world countries the best option is a bottle of beer because it's been filtered and distilled whereas the local tap water will give you wicked diarrhea or something else.
|
|
|
Post by nateball on Sept 6, 2016 21:32:48 GMT -5
This was one of the first places I browsed through. I almost never participated in anything except general NFL discussion on the other proboards, except for the main page of the graveyard. I immediately sought this page out because right now I'm a full fledged Christian enjoying a beautiful relationship with God. I recognize that not everybody shares the same beliefs, on here or irl, that's why I'm not a pushy Christian. I never argue with other people in trying to convince them my beliefs are more valid than theirs'. I abhor those people who stand outside of Wal-Mart with megaphones and scream at traffic about how they're all going to hell if they don't repent. Lol, I'm not one of THOSE. If someone ever asks me though, I'm more than happy to share what I believe, and if it can encourage them or offer them peace or lead them to salvation, I'm not ashamed at all of my faith. The funny part is everybody remembers me from the other proboards as "nateball89 - the Bills fan with a ridiculously foul mouth who has no filters and flies off the handle at the mere mention of the New England Patriots." Lol, sorry to disappoint, but I'm much more tame this time around...unless we have a blatant homer Patriots fan on here who suckles at the teet of the almighty Patriots, worships the ground Tom Brady walks on, and there's a Chiefs fan sympathizer who backs up everything that person says just to be contrary and tick everybody off. THEN I might get a little riled up once in a while. Anyways, I've known some of you for quite some time now, some better than others, but I thought I'd share some history on my faith. I'll try and summarize as much as I can because I could literally write a book about my faith - the ups, the downs, the times when I was all in, and the times when it was the furthest thing from my mind. Again, I recognize that everybody has different beliefs, and I won't try to shove any of mine down your throats, I'll simply try to explain what's happened in my life. (As not to be that one guy on the subway who walks up to another passenger, asks him to take his headphones out and then asks "Do you have a moment to hear about our Lord and Savior?") I was raised in the church from a very young age. Both my parents were Christians. My father was a hypocrite though because he tortured me and my siblings verbally, mentally, and emotionally. My mom was overprotective and forced church on us. We didn't have a say in the matter. It wasn't THAT bad because we had lots of friends in the church. When we hit puberty and things like questionable tv shows, non Christian music, and cigarettes started making their way into our lives, my mom threatened me with kicking me out of the house and sending me to an all boys shock camp if I "rebelled." I've actually had friends who ended up in shock camp and it messed them up for life. Both of them were raped by other inmates, and one ended up so bad he ended his life early by wrapping himself around a telephone pole driving drunk. Anyways, I was forced to attend youth group, which is church for teens, led by the church youth pastor, which usually had lame things like movies, candy, games, and a sermon tailored for teens. When I was sixteen I actually ended up becoming a full fledged Christian by myself. I made the decision, nobody else. I had a deep and meaningful relationship with God. From 1996 - 1999, every Summer, I would go on missionary trips to Mexico to spread the message of salvation and offer help to the poor. I got really good at guitar and singing and I was the leader of the praise and worship band for my youth group. At the risk of sounding immodest, lots of people said I was really good and said I should pursue a career in it. That's when my daughter's mom and I started a thing. I'd known my daughter's mom since we were in diapers, we grew up in the church together. Our parents had known each other before either of us were born. She moved away when were young teens and moved back my junior year of high school. We fell in love and I ended up getting her pregnant our senior year of high school. Obviously this is a big no no in the Christian church. We were ostracized and more or less excommunicated from the church. It was all one big hypocritical ordeal. The whole "love of Jesus...except for you dirty rotten sinners!" I was crushed hard. All my "friends" abandoned me. Our parents shamed us because we were supposed to be these upstanding Christians. We were broken up against our will and she started seeing another guy. I spiraled hard out of control and starting dating a girl I worked with just for sex, I literally had no emotional ties to her. Through her, I was introduced to alcohol, drugs, partying, and promiscuity. My daughter's mom got married a few times, had a few more kids with a few different guys. I spent the vast majority of my 20's drinking and doing drugs. I was majorly depressed. I'd missed out on having the one girl I wanted, and instead of just moving on, I overindulged in bad things and became a burnout. I won't go too much into detail about the past ten years of my life, but early last year, something traumatic brought my daughter's mom and I back together. We hadn't spoke in eight years. We hooked up on facebook and began talking about my daughter, who's sixteen now and absolutely stunning. (She takes after me )But the strength I needed to get through what was happening I didn't have on my own. I needed church or God, or WHATEVER. My brother had been nagging me to come to his church for years, with no luck. I went once early last year, fell asleep through it, and didn't go back for a few months. Still, I felt a pressing in my spirit that God wasn't done with me. I could distinctly feel a genuine calling because I remembered the feeling. It was something I knew, something familiar, and something I hadn't felt since last century. I started attending church every Sunday. I started reading my Bible. I started doing daily devotionals. God brought me out of a pit I had fallen into in my life for the past few years. THEN, this year happened. Lol, that's a different story for a different post, and I promise I'll get to it in time. All worked out though, I'm back on the path God wants me on, and I'm attuned to His spirit and basking in His love every day. I've shared enough for one post.
|
|
|
Post by divebitch on Sept 6, 2016 22:16:28 GMT -5
nateball - This is all the last kinda thing I imagined would come from you. If I had to guess in the past, I'd say you had a somewhat extraordinary beginnings. Hardly know you really, but always knew you were very special, with a lot of layers. I don't share your love for Jesus, but that doesn't detract for me, as I hope my lack thereof doesn't for you. Never heard of a shock camp. Holy cow. I can't tell you how happy I am that you are here right now, for however long. Certain people cannot ever be replaced.
|
|